Activism
Definition
In Debra's Own Words
DSA: It definitely has to do with standing up for what you believe in, walkin the talk, not just talking it. It has to do with having tremendous courage, not that... (pause) you don’t think about it when you do stand up, how much courage you have to have. I don’t think some of the great activists that we know of, you know, would Ghandi say, “Oh yeah, I had a lot of courage to stand up!”
SDW: (laughing)
DSA: Probably it’s not something he would say. But I do think you have to know what you believe in and have the courage to stand up for what you believe in. I think you have to be a part of the change you want to see in the world. If you’re racist in your actions towards others you’re not going to create change. So it gets to be a very personal thing. Being an anti-racist, or being an anti-sexist. (Pause) Beverly Taylor talked about the “isms” and described people who are active racists, who would, you know, you know examples of that. Someone who, David Duke, or someone in the KKK who are actively going after someone they hate. And a passive racist would be someone who would maybe hear a racist joke and not say anything or see someone be treated in a terrible way and not do anything. And an anti-racist would be someone who, if you tho’t about one of those moving sidewalks. The active racist would be running on that sidewalk, and the passive racist would be along for the ride, and wouldn’t go against it. And the anti-racist would be that fool, who would try to go back in the other direction against the force of this moving sidewalk. And so activism is that same thing. Um, cause if you’re just going along to get along, you’re not an activist. It really means you’ve gotta go against forces, whatever those forces are, whatever cause you feel compelled to stand for. I think you have to be real. And I think, unfortunately, if you look at social activism, there are a lot of people whose egos have been... there. There’ve been spokespersons, and they’ve been activists. But the change never really happened because it was more about them than what was supposed to happen. And I’m feeling that so much when thinking about the 70s, the 60s and 70s. So does an activist have to be non-egotistical? Yeah. I think they do. It’s not about them.
Hollins
(Selections)
Debra's Beginnings at Hollins
Debra: There was a lot going on in the nation at that time, there was a lot going on at Hollins. Hollins had closed down that previous spring as a result of all of the protests. I walked in and immediately I was in a dorm called Carvin, which was (including all the hill houses) filled with a lot of the activists on campus. The RA at that time was a woman who was editor of the newspaper and I feel gratitude to this day that I lived in that dorm cause I’m not sure I would’ve stayed at Hollins had I not. I immediately felt like I was (laughs) in a place where certainly my political opinions were not gonna-I could have friends, and we could share political opinions that didn’t have to be mutually exclusive, and I was grateful for that. Immediately there was much going on campus to get involved in. Every noon in the middle of quad there were protests against the war, sit-ins in front of the post office... There was a lot going on in the Roanoke Valley, certainly in the way of demonstrations, certainly at the nation’s capital. There was much going on with regards to issues around feminism, issues around race at Hollins, and it was a matter of choosing what you wanted to do. Not trying to find something, it was trying to pick out what you were humanly capable of doing, besides getting your work done and everything else.
I had to keep a lot of the things that I did... No body knew that I did them. That was important. That is still part of my belief system, it’s been part of the way I’ve run my professional life in the community organizing that I’ve done. And so I could be very creative, very flexible, very spontaneous in the organizing I did at Hollins. Because I didn’t have to go through channels, or talk to the president of this or the chair of that or you know, whomever. Um, and there were no political organizations at Hollins.
Other Hollins Activism Debra Participated In
Danielle: What kinds of social change work were you involved in while at Hollins?
Debra: You know, many of the employees lived on the Hollins community right next to campus and didn’t have indoor plumbing, didn’t have health insurance, didn’t have child care, certainly didn’t have a living wage... So there were a lot of needs that Hollins were not--- well, the administration was not feeling they had any responsibility for their employees. We had a great effort that was definitely across race and class lines with the people who worked at Hollins. Gloria Steinem and Dorothy Pittman Hughes and Margaret Sloan came to talk and fired up the campus and basically made us aware that we were not being attentive to the needs of labor on campus and really called the moral question for us on issues of labor and people who worked there.
We ended up working with all the workers, be it grounds people or the people who prepared food or cleaned the dorms and we structured a switch so that at lunch time we had enough students to go man a number, (well in this case “woman,”) to go in the place of people who were working on the grounds, workin' in the dorms, servin' food. We had students just simultaneously go to work stations. All the workers left their work stations and met for a couple of hours talking about issues. That was kind of a way to allow some of the planning that they needed to do as a group to begin developing a voice. And very simply when their meeting was over, everyone switched places. It all happened before word got to the president, that (voice changes to a higher pitch) “What? Why are all---? Where are the people who work here? All of a sudden there are a lot of students working at Hollins College, uh, and they’re not on work study, and we don’t know why this is happening...” So that was, we were very proud of that, and that was definitely a joint effort between white and black students. Again, that wasn’t the sponsorship of any organization, it was just something that in talking with some of the workers, we said, “Well, what can we do to help?” And they said, “This is what you can do to help. We need to meet, we don’t have any chance to talk. You know, we’re all on different shifts or we can’t get off of our jobs or there’s never time to do it cause we gotta go home when we get off work cause we have a second job,” or many reasons.
How did the Community School's 26th Annual Strawberry Festival Come to Be?
Debra: Because I was very invested and vested in my own education and the education of others, I worked with a number of people in the Roanoke Valley to . . . um. Start the community school. (with pride) And that was a big . . . effort. There was no . . . There were private schools as I remember in Roanoke, but there weren’t any . . . alternative schools. And um. The original site was in Salem, and I can’t remember where it was. And I know now that it’s right across the street ---
Danielle: Oh yeah.
Debra: -from Hollins, so. Um. And I don’t know when that . . . happened. You know, cause it. I went on, and it -
Danielle: Right.
Debra: - continued, thank goodness. It, it was wonderful. I can’t remember which reunion I went back and saw (high-pitched), “Is that our school?” But uh, that was very cool. And uh. And I was very involved in that from the ground up and was teaching there um, two days a week through my . . . I think it was my sophomore year, sophomore or junior year -
Danielle: Oh
Debra: I can’t remember which one. And that helped at the beginning. As a school starts it needs a lot of support and volunteers . So I felt pretty good about that.
Acts of Non-Violence
Debra: It’s amazing... When I reflect on what was considered “Anti-War,” [the same] was very strongly considered “Anti-American.” And I think to some extent that still exists . . . Not as much as it did with the Vietnam War. But even, I remember (laughs). I remember trying to put up a peace flag over Main. There’s East and West and Main, right?
Danielle: Mmhmm.
Debra: Over Main. And so, I crawled through a window, of somebody’s room, I can’t remember who it was. And was about to hang it, and some students actually tried to kick me off the roof.
Danielle: Oh my god!
Debra: And were very verbally abusive. And that was 1971. So we’re at the end of the war, and there was still a lot of strong feelings about being, uh, against the war. I remember we did some things in Roanoke, and I remember being at some shopping center leaf-letting. It might have been for one of the marches in D.C. I can’t remember exactly. I know it was anti-war and I think it was fora very large march. And you know I had a man to literally, physically start shoving me up against a car and telling me to get the hell out of there and being very uh, abusive. So there was– Which is amazing to me. Thinking about it in hindsight. I mean, it didn’t, it didn’t keep me from continuing to do things, but--- I never got over being amazed (laughs), I mean I still just didn’t kinda get it.
What ADA blackface incident?
Debra: We did have a black face incident that was very intense. It involved ADA...
Danielle: Yeah . . .
Debra: There were a lot of . . . drunk guys there from W&L and UVA, and there was . . . The African American women at Hollins had many friends at UVA and the guys came down and . . . It was very powerful. I was not, not in the room, but the African American students entered the auditorium and went down both aisles and just stood. And the, the skit was going on with the black face . . . person doing– I don’t know what they were doing, but— and it just stopped. And um. I guess I can say this now, but um, I was one of the few students-white students-who knew that there were guns in people’s pockets that night. And I had begged, I had begged the African American women to tell their friends, just, “Let’s not go there.” I, I, I really . . . But they were afraid for their lives cause there were all these drunk white guys. And so it was a very hard call. Um. So, fortunately, just but,---we were walking down, both men and women, the skit stopped. And in unison, the students said, “It’s time, it’s time for everybody to go home. We’d like for you to leave. It’s over.” And so . . . There were a group of white women out, and I was there. And uh, we were waiting (loud burst of laughter) to be sure that people left. We weren’t sure if they weren’t gonna leave what we were gonna do, but we were gonna, we were there, to, to, we were asked to be there. And uh, so the guys came, furious, came-I remember-right into the middle of quad, were . . . just . . . outraged that this had— and we just said, “Go home. This is not your school. We’re not gonna tolerate this mess. You’re part of it, so get the hell outta here.” And it was, it was confrontational. But fortunately, it was not violent. And . . . it ended. (Pause) Unfortunately, from my understanding, there have been other incidents at Hollins.
Danielle Yeah . . .
Debra: So there’s, there’s some issues there that . . . you know, you’d hope you put something to rest, um . . . But . . . So. That’s the insidiousness of something like racism.
Fighting Back Until She Graduated
DSA: There was an... issue with our speaker at our graduation, who was McGruger Dent. Uh, who was the last, okay. Nixon’s been...
SDW: Right.
DSA: He’s gone. McGruger was kinda the last person saying, “No, he’s really a, he’s really a good guy, he’s really a good guy.”
SDW: Oh...
DSA: But he was the father of one of my classmates.
SDW: Whoa.
DSA: And so I tried to say, “I don’t care... whose father he is. This is totally inappropriate.”
SDW: Yeah.
DSA: And... There was some thought that um. We tried to organize a boycott... of our graduation. And could not... could not get the kinda energy around it. Cause it’s people’s graduation. And so um. I decided that I was not gonna go to my graduation, because of him. And uh, went, actually, in to get, since you had to get tickets or suh’m for graduation?
SDW: Yeah.
DSA: They wouldn’t give me my tickets cause they thought I was gonna have, (laughing) I was gonna cause trouble. And I said, “You know, I’m not gonna cause trouble. (Very serious) But if you don’t give me my tickets, I am gonna cause trouble.” I said, “You have no right to deny my those tickets. You have no knowledge of what I —“ and what I wanted (to do was) give ‘em to a friend of mine.
SDW: Yeah!
DSA: Who... had additional family members coming, was the first child in her family to graduate from college, and I figure, I’m not, I’ve told my parents not to come, I’m not going, but I’m gonna give my tickets up. And I had to fight for that. And that, that was, that was hard.
SDW: That’s totally ridiculous.
DSA: But that’s how... You know, those are some of the, some of the costs of speaking out.
Now
Current Projects
DSA: The work that I’m doing as a consultant is really state-wide. It includes Charlottesville. It is around issues of hunger and poverty. And it is really trying to get uh, kinda region-by-region around the state, um, people talking across disciplines about issues of hunger and poverty. And shifted from direct services… not away from, just shift, direct services and advocacy. Community action agencies, food banks are not activated. They’re, they’re working hard, you know. They’re providing direct services, but they’re not advocates.
SDW: Mmhmm.
DSA: In any overt way. The voices of the poor and the hungry are silent in this state. And so I’m trying to turn up the volume, and I’m doing it in a very um… You know, through dialogue. Which is what I’ve been working on since September. And we’re shifting into doing things a little bit more overtly. Getting federal and state officials actually to… I think we can do this, in every region in this state… to go meet with hungry, poor people. And… if you don’t believe that there’s an issue, then have people tell their stories. You don’t have to trust a thing that I tell you. You don’t have to trust the hunger report which came out three weeks ago. You don’t have--- you can say it’s all a bunch of hogwash. But. My experience has been when you actually take someone---whether it’s D.C. or Richmond--- and put them in somebody’s living room and have them talk with someone, something happens. So. We’re gonna do that, I hope. I hope to begin that process this summer, um, by having at least seven of those occurrences (laughing)--- I don’t know what you wanna call them, but they’re gonna occur. (Slapping hands against her knees) May even have some presidential candidates perspective on one of these buses.SDW: That’s awesome!
DSA: Yeah. Cause it’s time. They’re very, very detached from reality.
SDW: Yes.
DSA: Um… and so again. Don’t listen to what I tell ya. Go see it for yourself. So we’re gonna hopefully make that happen. And it’s, it’s gonna be a “we.”
SDW: That’s great!
DSA: Hopefully we’ll have partners at community action agencies and food banks around the state. And they’ve have an opportunity to talk, um, while you’re on the bus. But we’re gonna go into hollas and we’re gonna go into ghettos and we’re gonna go where ever people are and meet em on their territory, in their homes, on their land, and have people tell their story. And I believe that’s one part of making a difference. Cause the media will be there and hopefully there’ll be some interesting stories coming out of all of that. And hopefully some powers that be, their perception will be shifted about what’s important. We hope to do some training around the state, institutes for people, leadership institutes, to… get people who are the CEOs of food banks or the CEOs of community action agencies to feel more comfortable in an advocacy role. Cause right now they’re very scared that if they speak out they’re money’s gonna be taken from them.
SDW: Yeah.
DSA: And I can’t tell em that that’s not true!
SDW: Yeah.
DSA: But money’s being taken from you anyway. So you gotta make a decision about what’s important. And I’m not telling you to walk out on a gang plank and you be the only one to jump off. But hopefully we can get people comfortable enough, actually to go back into their communities to start, to start getting their staff, and for they themselves to work with people who are hungry and people who are poor to be the spokespeople. Cause that’s really where is has to come. And then to do some work around the kinda quality of service that organizations are doing. Cause they’re, they’re doing a lot of good work. But what we’ve learned from the roundtables was there’s other stuff that they need to be doing. And so. Part of it is to get some of that shifted. So that’s what I’m gonna be workin’ on til next February. And maybe some other creative things. Tomorrow we’re meeting in Richmond about… uh, getting faith organizations across the state, maybe to do a very large effort on the poverty diet. Which would be people who would um, agree for three days to live on a food stamp diet. And so part of that is to get, you know, ministers, and get mayors---
SDW: Yeah!
DSA: --and get heads of social services, and get the governor. That, if across the state of Virginia we could have, you know, pocket here, pocket there, pocket---all in the same three days to experience the poverty diet and then to come back. If we could do that on a regional level, and you have a meal together and you talk about… what it was like to live on a food stamp diet. These are people who… don’t do this (laughs). That that shifts the level of awareness, of what many people are experiencing. So.
SDW: That’s so interesting! Like, who knows that things like that are going on in Virginia?
DSA: Well, hopefully it will be more pronounced!
SDW: Yeah, no, that’s so great!
DSA: Because the hope is, if uh, I can get--- which I don’t think I’m gonna have a problem---uh, Pam Irvine, who’s head of the food bank in Roanoke---Salem---
SDW: Yeah, it seems, that name sounded familiar.
DSA: And uh, Ted Edlich, who’s head of TAP… I don’t think I’m gonna have a problem here. But we would hopefully have Hollins participate in the poverty diet for those three days.
SDW: That’s great tho!
DSA: Yeah.
SDW: I think you can probably definitely get support for that.
DSA: Yeah. I think we can. Cause it’ll help to bring people together in a non---this is not controversial! This is just someone saying, you know, “Oh, I’ll do that!” You know, an individual saying, “I’ll do that. I wanna, oh, I'll do that." And then do it. And then process that experience with others who have had it. So.
SDW: That’s really cool.
DSA: Yeah. So you may see me again (laughing)!
Stillwater
(information received via email)
DSA: The Stillwater Institute for Social Justice is the result of four women's dream of equality, justice, and freedom for people who experience oppression as a result of their race, class, gender, age, sexual orientation, physical ability or religion. Four women-Pynke Gohaner-Lyles, Shawn Harris, Greer Dawson-Wilson and I want to make a difference in the world. We envision a world where people could be who they really are and become whoever they want to be. That somehow, the chains of oppression can be broken and that alliances across our differences can be formed. For us, this is a peace-building process. That we are all -that much stronger united across our differences. That oppression so often divides us rather than unites us. Our goals then and now remain the same. Unfortunately , there is not the interest, financial resources or commitment to actually do the work that is r equired. to transform both individuals and systems. Our work is focused on dismantling systems of oppression and creating alternatives that will hopefully treat people with dignity and respect. This work is not easy, not simple and takes time. It remains our hope, that we as a people will come to the realization that we must examine our past in order to move forward. It is our hope that we will have the courage to tell the truth about the past and the stamina to be bold in our quest for peace and for justice in our future and our children's future. One of our partners, left our side and we owe it to her to continue this work.